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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:51 pm 
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1981 Mitsubishi Lancer EX GSL
Hi guys, I've been reading a lot of posts all over this forum for a while now to learn what I can about my car but I have one problem at the moment which I can't solve. What voltage readings am I supposed to get on the ECU connector for the TPS. When the connector is disconnected and engine is turned off, but they key is on, I get the following readings:

Ground - 0v
Signal - ~4.5v
Power - 5.0v

So I'm never able to get the magic 0.5v at idle because there's always voltage on the signal wire. I can get 0.5v if I measure the voltage between the signal and power wires, but this doesn't seem right to me. I want to measure between signal and ground right?

I'm investigating this because I can't seem to shake the misfire and absolutely terrible economy I'm getting at the moment. I've replaced all ignition components, O2 sensor, coolant temp sensor with no change what so ever.

I should add that I'm using a conversion kit and using a TPS from a Mazda, but that shouldn't matter as even with the connector unplugged there's still voltage on the signal wire.

Also, my car isn't actually a Cordia, but a Lancer EX 1800 GSR which shares the same engine as the Cordia; G62BT with the B-Type injection.

Image

Any help or advise is much appreciated! :)


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jun 2017, 9:42 pm 
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Make an error checker:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16819&p=162259&hilit=error+codes#p162259


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jun 2017, 10:51 am 
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1981 Mitsubishi Lancer EX GSL
Bitza wrote:


Thanks for the quick reply Bitza!

I've already checked the codes after referencing that thread and it came up with Oxygen sensor, MAF sensor and TPS Sensor. I've replaced the MAF and oxygen sensors and I still got codes for those after warming it up in driveway, but I reset the codes and took it for a drive and got it really hot and those codes went away and left the TPS code. I don't know what's going on with the MAF code as I haven't checked the codes since. The MAF is probably back knowing my luck!

I just wanted to focus on the TPS for now as I suspect I might have a problem with my ECU as it doesn't make sense to me that I'm seeing ~4.7v on the sensor wire from the ECU. Can anyone confirm what voltage they get on the sensor wire by unplugging the connector and measuring the voltage between the sensor wire and ground on the ECU side so I can confirm if my ECU is misbehaving, or whether this is normal?


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jun 2017, 11:45 am 
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You need to measure the voltage with the TPS plugged in, as this is a variable resistor the output from the ECU will be 5 volt unplugged.
Measure the voltage across the signal wire and ground, should be 0.45 - 0.51 volt depending on model.


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jun 2017, 1:52 pm 
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Bitza wrote:
You need to measure the voltage with the TPS plugged in, as this is a variable resistor the output from the ECU will be 5 volt unplugged.
Measure the voltage across the signal wire and ground, should be 0.45 - 0.51 volt depending on model.


Cool, that's basically what I needed to know. When I do this, I get ~4.7-5v no matter where the wiper on the TPS is. This is because the ECU is outputting voltage on this wire, roughly 4.7v, even when disconnected from the TPS, so it looks like my ECU is faulty. Will have to pull it out and check the caps, I think.

Does anyone know if the ECU's are interchangeable between the Cordia's and Lancers? I've tried an ECU from a Starion and they appear identical, but one of the plugs is different, probably because those have 4G63's I would guess...

The part number for mine is:
MD109993
E2T11191


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jun 2017, 2:19 pm 
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Here in Australia the cordia (unleaded) ran these ECU's:
MD109992
E2T31493
6225

Sticker on the side of ECU reads 9992

Interchangeable ECU (Still mitsi)
MD103657
E2T31473
6215

And on the sticker on the side it reads 3657

These should be the same as yours (wiring wise) and should plug in.


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jun 2017, 2:37 pm 
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Just found the difference between 9992 and your 9993 ECU, the inlet temp sensor on yours is in the crossover pipe where 9992 the sensor is in the air flow meter, just double check the ECU's pin outs, wiring should be the same.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16266


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Jun 2017, 9:55 pm 
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To address the economy issue, is your O2 sensor single wire? If it is I would suggest converting it to 4-wire because it improves the grounding of the sensor and the heated side lets the engine get into closed loop faster. Let me know if you need help on how to do it.
Bitza is spot on about the TPS.

Rob


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jun 2017, 10:30 am 
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Bitza wrote:
Just found the difference between 9992 and your 9993 ECU, the inlet temp sensor on yours is in the crossover pipe where 9992 the sensor is in the air flow meter, just double check the ECU's pin outs, wiring should be the same.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16266


Wow! That's great info! If it gets that bad, then I may be able to find one of those ECU's or at least potentially borrow one :). I'll pull mine out first, though and see if I can see any bad capacitors. I'm hoping that's all that's wrong. Fingers are crossed as someone has definitely had a play with the wiring at the ECU connectors which I'm hoping I don't have to get in to!

Wexx wrote:
To address the economy issue, is your O2 sensor single wire? If it is I would suggest converting it to 4-wire because it improves the grounding of the sensor and the heated side lets the engine get into closed loop faster. Let me know if you need help on how to do it.
Bitza is spot on about the TPS.

Rob


Yes, my O2 is a single wire one. I've seen closed loop mentioned a lot and not quite sure what that is, could you explain? This is my first car I've had to address issues with the ECU and sensors. My other Lancers have all had carburettors, or have been later model and not had these sorts of issues.

I'll be keen if you could point me in any direction so I can read up about changing the O2 sensor to a 4-wire. My TPS issue is probably causing most of my problems, but either way, 200KM on a tank of petrol is not good! :P


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jun 2017, 2:05 pm 
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The TBI's won't go into closed loop (stoichiometric 14.7:1 AFR at cruise) as the single EGO wire is for idle emissions only, it basically replaced the variable resistor from the AB, therefore a 4 wire narrow band oxy sensor will do nothing.


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jun 2017, 10:06 pm 
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Bitza wrote:
The TBI's won't go into closed loop (stoichiometric 14.7:1 AFR at cruise) as the single EGO wire is for idle emissions only, it basically replaced the variable resistor from the AB, therefore a 4 wire narrow band oxy sensor will do nothing.


For his setup, correct?
I know the 4-wire fixed my open loop rich running on my AC. You guys down under have more time with the earlier ones than here in the states.


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jun 2017, 10:14 pm 
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Nearly all AC's here in Oz run the single EGO sensor, pretty sure latter models didn't change, the meter is for CO reading on idle, other mixtures rely on the AFM and MAP sensors to inject the correct amount of fuel.


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun 2017, 4:11 am 
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Bitza wrote:
Nearly all AC's here in Oz run the single EGO sensor, pretty sure latter models didn't change, the meter is for CO reading on idle, other mixtures rely on the AFM and MAP sensors to inject the correct amount of fuel.


Mine ran super-rich in all ranges (to the point of fouling plugs and contaminating the oil) and the only code it was throwing was the o2 sensor. This was on a brand new single wire O2 sensor. I changed it out for a late model Lancer 4 wire heated sensor (custom plug) and it solved the rich issue. That was without running the heating element, but now I have it pulling power from the dis-used EGR 12v source. The last plug reading I did it is burning clean and goes slightly rich under boost (from the light smoke from the tailpipe while putting my foot into it).

Just curious, how many CATS did the Oz Cordias run with the turbo? My book shows two for the states.

Note: I'm running a VR/EVO 1-4 dump pipe on the TD05-16G

Rob


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun 2017, 8:30 am 
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Oz cordia's run one CAT, straight off the back of a TC05 turbo.


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun 2017, 5:22 pm 
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Bitza wrote:
Oz cordia's run one CAT, straight off the back of a TC05 turbo.


The next thing to do after sorting my running issues is to remove the cat :) The downpipe from a Starion is a direct fit I've been told, for RWD configuration engines anyway, if that's useful to anyone, lol.


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun 2017, 5:44 pm 
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Starions are rarer than cordia's over here.


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun 2017, 10:01 pm 
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ScrubbRacer wrote:
Bitza wrote:
Oz cordia's run one CAT, straight off the back of a TC05 turbo.


The next thing to do after sorting my running issues is to remove the cat :) The downpipe from a Starion is a direct fit I've been told, for RWD configuration engines anyway, if that's useful to anyone, lol.


I forgot to say, for your O2 sensor code try taking a wire and attaching it to the body of the O2 sensor (with a hose clamp) then grounding it to the main body ground. I found that the single wire sensors use the ground through the threads/engine/body for the signal ground from the ECU through the sensor. That could help the sensor work better to get rid of the code.


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PostPosted: Mon 19 Jun 2017, 7:35 pm 
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Wexx wrote:
ScrubbRacer wrote:
Bitza wrote:
Oz cordia's run one CAT, straight off the back of a TC05 turbo.


The next thing to do after sorting my running issues is to remove the cat :) The downpipe from a Starion is a direct fit I've been told, for RWD configuration engines anyway, if that's useful to anyone, lol.


I forgot to say, for your O2 sensor code try taking a wire and attaching it to the body of the O2 sensor (with a hose clamp) then grounding it to the main body ground. I found that the single wire sensors use the ground through the threads/engine/body for the signal ground from the ECU through the sensor. That could help the sensor work better to get rid of the code.


Sounds like a good mod. Might try it once I get this TPS issue sorted, thanks!

So I opened up the ECU hoping to find some bad capacitors, but it all looked as good as the day it was made. I can't quite see which pin(s) on the pin-out diagram is the power for the ECU, does anyone know? My plan is to connect only the power with everything disconnected and see if there's still a weird voltage on the TPS signal wire, and if there isn't then it may be the wiring at fault shorting with another wire possibly...

Thanks!


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